Victor Pablo Zoltan Frank

Pedro Megías Cónsul de Suecia, Annie Mari, Cónsul General de Francia y Volodymyr Kokhno Cónsul de Ucrania.

PABLO ZOLTAN, CONSUL DE HUNGRIA EN MALAGA Y VICEPRESIDENTE DE LA ALIANZA FRANCOFONA DEL REINO DE ESPAÑA SE SUMA A LOS ACTOS EN APOYO DE LA PERMANENCIA DEL CONSULADO DE FRANCIA EN LA CAPITAL DE LA COSTA DEL SOL.

Los Diplomáticos acreditados en Málaga salvan el Consulado francés. El Gobierno galo mantendrá la antena consular, que atiende a más de 6.700 ciudadanos en la provincia

¿Quién dijo que la diplomacia ya no es lo que era? El apoyo unánime de los representantes de más de una treintena de países que forman el Cuerpo Consular de la provincia ha conseguido que el Gobierno francés dé marcha atrás en su decisión de prescindir de la representación gala en Málaga. «La antena consular francesa seguirá funcionando en la provincia al menos durante el año 2010», confirmó ayer la vicecónsul de Francia, Mariane Blanchut, que acababa de recibir la noticia del Ministerio de Asuntos Exteriores francés.
El Gobierno galo anunció hace un año su intención de eliminar la antena consular en Málaga dentro de una política de recortes de funcionariado para reducir costes en plena crisis económica; eso incluía también a los diplomáticos que tiene repartidos por todo el mundo. Sin embargo, la vicecónsul Blanchut indicó que la delegación malagueña es muy necesaria. «Tenemos registrados a 6.700 ciudadanos franceses que viven habitualmente en la Costa del Sol; pero además, Málaga es un destino turístico preferente para otros miles de franceses que acuden aquí y que también pueden precisar alguna gestión, así como los ciudadanos franco-marroquíes que atraviesan Andalucía para pasar el Estrecho y a los que también atendemos», señaló.
De hecho, a pesar de que existe otra delegación consular en Sevilla, Málaga es la que atiende todos los trámites administrativos. «Es el único punto del sur de España donde se pueden expedir los pasaportes biométricos que ha implantado el Gobierno francés; hasta aquí acuden personas desde toda Andalucía, Murcia, Ceuta, Melilla e incluso de las Islas Canarias que de otra forma tendrían que ir directamente al consulado general de Madrid», afirmó.
Por eso, el Cuerpo Consular malagueño, además de otras instituciones como el Ayuntamiento de Málaga, la Alianza Francófona o la Alianza Francesa, decidió arropar a la vicecónsul francesa y ofreció una cena de gala la pasada semana para mostrar su apoyo. El cónsul de Panamá, Baldomero Rodiles-San Miguel Pardo, fue el encargado de organizar la velada. «Esta cena diplomática, junto con los resultados de la carga de trabajo que hemos tenido durante 2009, ha sido lo que ha convencido al Ministerio de Asuntos Exteriores de que debíamos continuar», indica Blanchut, vicecónsul en la provincia desde hace un año y medio. Gracias a esta decisión, los ciudadanos franceses podrán seguir tramitando sus papeles, pasaportes y certificados, votar en las elecciones de su país o solicitar becas para sus hijos desde Málaga.
AMANDA SALAZAR | MÁLAGA.
fuente: Diario Sur

Dr. Erhard Busek President of Vienna Economic Forum – Hon. Cons. Pablo Zoltan

PABLO ZOLTAN ATTENDS VIENNA ECONOMIC FORUM BY INVITATION OF RAIFFEISEN BANK

Regional Cooperation – Challenges and Chances – 20 Years after the fall of the Iron Curtain
9 – 10 November 2009 in Raiffeisen Zentral Bank in Vienna
Topics:
  • Bank and Insurance Sector: Crisis management: What is the correct policy response and is the IMF providing enough support?
  • Crisis Time in CEE? Concrete Projects and Success Stories in the Vienna Economic Forum Member Countries. The Danube Cooperation.
  • CEO and Ministers Session: Visions are required! How to attract FDIs in crisis times? Public Private Partnership (PPP) Projects
  • Challenges and Chances for the Regional Cooperation in the Energy Sector. Regional Energy Prospects in 2010 and Beyond
  • Regional Energy Prospects in 2010 and beyond. Concrete Projects. Energy Saving.
  • Regional Energy Prospects in 2010 and beyond. Pipeline Projects – Diversification as an Impulse for the Economy
  • Governors and Bankers Session: How to attract liquidity and safeguard lending? Tools and measures to steer economic imbalances: Ask the Governors
By special invitation of Reiffeisen Bank Vienna, Pablo Zoltan Frank , Hon. Consul of Hungary in Andalucía, Spain and Co-Chairmen of communications group G24W, attended the several meetings of the 6th Vienna Economic Forum. At this year’s 6th Vienna Economic Forum on November 9 and 10, 2009 President Dr. Erhard Busek and Secretary General Ambassador Dr. Elena Kirtcheva had the great pleasure to welcome around 400 participants from 30 countries throughout the world. Beside our honourable VIP-Guests, Deputy Prime Ministers, Ministers from our Member countries, high ranking representatives from Energy Community Secretariat, International Monetary Fund (IMF), Regional Cooperation Council located in Sarajevo, Southeast European Cooperative Initiative (SECI), South-East European Cooperation Process (SEECP), United Nations Industrial Development Organization (UNIDO) and United Nations Industrial Development Organization) took part in the meeting.
An Opening Message was given by H.E. the Austrian Federal Chancellor Werner Faymann, who pointed out the importance of the South-East European region in the last 20 years after the fall of the Iron Curtain and the close cooperation with the Austrian economy.
Dr. Erhard Busek, Former Vice Chancellor of Austria and President of Vienna Economic Forum underlined the necessity of regional cooperation for the countries of South-Eastern Europe.
A welcome Address was given by Dr. Herbert Stepic, Chairman of Raiffeisen International Bank-Holding AG, Vice Chairman of RZB AG and Member of the Board of Vienna Economic Forum, who hosted the Forum again this year. Dr. Stepic mentioned that the countries from the region have successfully changed in the last 20 years, and that they can trust in their partners.Congratulations came from Dr. Veit Sorger, President of the Federation of Austrian Industry and Founding Member of Vienna Economic Forum. European perspective and a future EU membership as the driving force for the political and economic development of South-East Europe.
Further speaking during the first Plenary Session were Mr. Hidajet Biscevic, Secretary General of the South East European Cooperation Process (SEECP) and Regional Cooperation Council.
It was a pleasure for Vienna Economic Forum to welcome so many important Ministers, Deputy Ministers and high-ranking representatives from companies in Austria and in the region.
Ministers from the Region participating in the 6th Vienna Economic Forum were:
H.E. Mr. Valeriu Lazar, Vice Prime Minister and Minister of Economy of the Republic of Moldova
H.E. Dr. Fatmir Besimi, Minister of Economy of the Republic of Macedonia
H.E. Ms. Justina Shiroka-Pulla, Minister for of Energy and Mining of the Republic of Kosovo
H.E. Mr. Musa Xhaferri, Minister of Local–Self Government of Macedonia
The Governors, Members of the Governors Committee of Vienna Economic Forum who took part in the special Governors Session were:
Dr. Wolfgang Duchatczek, Vice Governor of the Oesterreichische Nationalbank
Mr. Ardian Fullani, Governor of the National Bank of Albania
Mr. Kemal Kozaric, Governor of the National Bank of Bosnia and Herzegovina
Mr. Dimitar Kostov, Deputy Governor – Banking Department, the National Bank of the Republic of Bulgaria
Mr. Hashim Rexhepi, Governor of the Central Bank of Kosovo
Partners with whom Vienna Economic Forum has a Memorandum of Understanding were represented in the 6th Vienna Economic Forum:
Dr. Akkan Suver, President of Marmara Foundation, Turkey
Bogdan Popovici, President of Forum Invest, Romania
Furthermore, Ceremonies of Signing a Memorandum of Understanding with Mr. F. Sadi Gücüm of DEIK, Foreign Economic Relations Board of Turkey, and Dr. Milan Parivodic, Chairman of Foreign Investors Services d.o.o., Serbia, were held.
Secretary General Ambassador Dr. Elena Kirtcheva stated she is glad to see Vienna Economic Forum grow to be a useful platform and pointed out that 20 years ago this Forum would not have been possible to organize. Ambassador Dr. Kirtcheva pointed out the big role of the pioneers in this region, who helped introduce investment in the region. Speaking about the pioneer activities, she this year presented for the first time the Vienna Economic Forum – South East Europe Award. The highly esteemed award winners were
Dr. Erhard Busek, Former Vice Chancellor of Austria, Co-founder and President of Vienna Economic Forum – for his years of contribution to the political and democratic reforms in the countries of the region,
Dr. Herbert Stepic, Co-founder and Member of the Board of Vienna Economic Forum (and from the beginning host in the Raiffeisen Hall in Raiffeisen Zentral Bank) for his steady pioneer activities in the countries of Vienna Economic Forum, for the development of the banking sector in the region, always risk-willing and successful,
Dr. Wolfgang Schüssel, Former Federal Chancellor of Austria, for his steady and active support of the countries of Vienna Economic Forum on their way to a democratic and market economiy reform,
Dr. Veit Sorger, President of the Federation of Austrian Industries and Founding Member of Vienna Economic Forum, for his years of consequent and active participation in the investment processes in the countries of Vienna Economic Forum.

PABLO ZOLTAN MEMBER OF THE CONSULAR CHAMBER OF COMERCE 

lINK: http://www.consul.cc/consul/index.php/902/HU-ES

Laszlo Solyom, Presidente de la República de Hungría, nacido en Pécs, condado de Pécs , en Enero de 1942, sin filiacion a ningun partido político, Magistrado de justicia y profesor de Derecho. El tercer presidente de la República de Hungría reconstituida en 1989 es un jurista experto en derechos de la persona y la protección del medio ambiente que desde el advenimiento de la democracia al país centroeuropeo ha canalizado un importante activismo social dentro y fuera de los cauces partidistas, fundamentalmente en su condición de togado jefe de la judicatura constitucional. El 7 de junio de 2005, como candidato respaldado por la oposición derechista al Gobierno de centro-izquierda, László Sólyom fue elegido por el Parlamento para ocupar la jefatura del Estado en sucesión de Ferenc Mádl. El 5 de agosto siguiente tomó posesión de una oficina estatal que el sistema de gobierno húngaro, de tipo parlamentario, relega a funciones básicamente representativas e institucionales.

LASZLO SOLYOM - PABLO ZOLTAN

Pablo Zoltan – Laszlo Solyom

Cuerpo Consular

Reunion anual del Cuerpo Consular acreditado en Málaga-Costa del Sol. Sres. Consules de Belgica, Holanda, Francia, Brasil,  Reino Unido, Suecia, Dinamarca, Alemania, Ecuador (Decano) Portugal, Luxemburgo, Austria, Haiti, Estados Unidos de América y Hungría.

Link: The story of the Hon. Consuls Institution

 

Ministery of Foreign Affairs of Hungary

The short history of honorary consular representations 

 

Although it dates back to antiquity, the institution of honorary consuls had been regulated by customary law until codified by the Vienna Convention on consular relations in 1963.

The institution was originally created out of necessity; its traces may be discovered in China, India and in the Middle East from the 8 th century. The principal mission of the consuls was to promote the interests of their sovereign and his subjects in the host country, mainly by fostering social and economic relations. As international relations, trade and shipping between continents developed, the role of honorary consuls has increased and they also enjoyed certain privileges.

The career consular service was only born in the end of the 18 th century. France was the first state to hire career consuls and other countries soon followed suite. (Therefore French was – and still is – the official language of diplomacy.) Although states generally send their diplomatic delegates to the capital or to other major cities of the host country, consuls can successfully perform their official duties in smaller towns, since their work focuses on the representation and protection of the interests of citizens of the sending state, rather than on political dialogue with central authorities of the host country. On the other hand, there was no significant difference between honorary and career consuls in terms of their essential tasks and duties.

During the period of the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy (1867-1918), Hungary had no independent diplomatic service. However, after the disintegration of the Monarchy and the restoration of constitutionalism in 1920; Hungary became independent and the Royal Hungarian Ministry of Foreign Affairs could start functioning.

The establishment of diplomatic relations with foreign countries as well as with some international organizations made an impressive start in the 1920’s supported by serious financial investments. The most important task was to build a network of diplomatic missions and to offer diplomatic services. In addition to royal legations, career consulates honorary consulates were created. The number of Hungarian diplomats and legations was only slightly affected by the Great Depression of 1929-1933, which lead to nominal cut-backs. In the era before the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, the honorary consular system was regulated by customary law in Hungary.

Between the two world wars royal Hungarian envoys were accredited to four continents, serving in Europe from 1921, in America from 1922, in Africa from 1928 and in Asia from 1937. In 1921 there were 5 career Hungarian consulates in the world, by 1941 their number increased to 21. In 1921 five honorary consulates operated, whereas in 1941 there were 58 of them.

The number of Hungarian consulates was at its highest in 1937, when 106 consular representations were functioning: 17 of them were career consulates and 89 honorary consulates.

By the end of the 1930’s, consulates were established in every European country, with the exception of the smallest ones. This means that Hungary successfully created a consular system which covered practically all of Europe. The great number of consulates on the American continent is also outstanding, a fact which could be explained by the significant Hungarian expatriate population living there, though in many cases the consuls representing Hungarian interests were not Hungarian citizens.

The high proportion of honorary consuls is South America and Asia is also to be mentioned. The tasks of the consulates were mainly to intensify economic and cultural relations besides representing the interests of Hungarian citizens.

According to available data the number of envoys was constantly on the rise until 1938, and then it fell dramatically when Hungary became involved in the Second World War. During the war in tandem with the diminishing number of tourists, consular incomes of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs coming mostly from the issuance of passports, endorsements and visa administration also decreased. After 1939 the number of legations and consulates decreased significantly.

Another significant turn of events took place in March of 1944 when Hungary lost its sovereignty as a result of German occupation. It was shortly followed by the imposition of the Soviet-type one-party system of communism – during this era the operation of the honorary consular system was prohibited by law.

The Vienna Convention on Consular Relations was incorporated into Hungarian law by Law Decree No. 13 of 1987. The institution of honorary consuls – practically abolished in the 1950’s – was restored by a decree of the Minister of Foreign Affairs in 1988.

This new legal environment created an opportunity to nominate and receive honorary consuls once again from 1989/90. Nowadays the appointment and reception, the activity and the supervision of honorary consuls are regulated by Decree No. 2/1995 of the Minister of Foreign Affairs, as well as by Internal Directive Nr. 4/1995.

It is important to distinguish between the two categories of career consuls and honorary consuls since their tasks and competences are somewhat different. The Vienna Convention of 1963 distinguishes between career consuls and honorary consuls, and defines their legal status differently. Career consuls are civil servants of the sending country, whereas honorary consuls are personalities of high esteem, usually citizens or permanent inhabitants of the host country, who undertake to safeguard the interests of the sending country as well as to further the development of commercial, economic, cultural and scientific relations between the sending state and the host state using their own financial resources and network of acquaintances.

In the 21 st century the institution of honorary consuls is undergoing a new renaissance, as a result of the ongoing large scale development of communication on the one hand, and the reduction of financial resources invested in the diplomatic services on the other. Honorary consuls are in many cases capable to relieve, and sometimes even replace career consuls. There is a tremendous need of their efforts these days, which is reflected by the continuous enlargement of the Hungarian honorary consular service. With this particular civil diplomacy regulated by international and national law, Hungary’s network of international relations is quickly developing to cover an ever growing number of countries.

Since 1982 the World Federation of Consuls (Fédération internationale des corps et associations consulaires, FICAC; www.ficac.com ) has served as a global forum for career and honorary consular associations. The organisation was founded to support the status, legitimacy and efficacy of every consular official in every host country. Its aim is to facilitate mutual understanding and cooperation between career and honorary consuls, and to provide a suitable forum for the exchange of information about rights and duties and also for the establishment of well functioning working relations.

Currently 207 honorary consular officers maintain Hungarian presence in 92 countries of the world. In 40 countries out of these 89 there are no Hungarian career diplomats or consuls at all. There are 35 honorary consuls general, and one vice-consul, while the others hold the title of honorary consul. At the moment there are several approval processes going on.

Almost 50 % of our honorary consuls work in Europe ( 98 ), there are 50 of them working in America, 27 in Asia, 25 in Africa and 7 in Australia and Oceania.

The number of honorary consuls working in Hungary is also increasing; currently 51 honorary consuls represent 42 countries in Hungary.

In several countries highly esteemed personalities of the Hungarian expatriate community were more than willing to undertake this prestigious commission, which means that a large number of our honorary consuls – at the moment 84 out of 207 – are of Hungarian nationality or origin.

Our honorary consuls fulfil a significant role in the economic, scientific, cultural and tourist life of the host country. In accordance with international routine, the maintenance of the honorary consular offices does not charge the budget of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Honorary consuls perform their duties without remuneration, relying on their own financial resources.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs publishes the list every year of honorary consuls decorated with a Certificate of Merit in recognition of their decade-long distinguished service in protection of Hungarian citizens and Hungarian interests.

The Republic of Hungary is one of the few countries to organize regular conferences for its honorary consular corps. The fourth of such world-wide forum will be held in Budapest at the end of May, 2008.

Por invitacion del rectorado de la Facultad de Ciencias Empresariales de la Universidad de Málaga, en la persona de la directora del Ciclo de Conferencias sobre Mercados Exteriores, Dra. Julia Martín Armario, Pablo Zoltan, Consul Honorario de Hungria en Andalucia y Alto Comisionado de EEDC (European Economic Development Council, W.F.O.), con actividad en América Latina,  impartió en instalaciones de la Universidad de Málaga una conferencia sobre «Sociedad del Conocimiento en Mercosur», basada en la tesis de  Javier Medina Vasques y Edgar Ortegón, del Instituto Latinoamericano de Planificacion Economica y Social de CEPAL, a alumnos de ultimo curso de la facultad de Ciencias Economicas y Empresariales de la Universidad de Málaga.

Link:  CONFERENCIA PZ MERCOSUR

 

Los cónsules del Reino Unido, Alemania, Hungría, Islandia, Arabia Saudí y la vicecónsul de Finlandia relatan qué impresión general tienen de la Capital de la Costa del Sol sus nacionales.

http://www.laopiniondemalaga.es/secciones/noticia.jsp?pRef=3082_2_146500__malaga-Malaga-vista-consul

COPA AMERICA: PABLO ZOLTAN Y JULIO MARTIN ORGANIZAN UNA NOCHE DE JAZZ A BORDO DEL THALASSI.

Fuente: Diario Las Provincias, Valencia

http://www.lasprovincias.es/prensa/20070708/ocio/oeee_20070708.html

Por MAITE MERCADO Y JUANA CAMPS/ VALENCIA

Resuenan los ecos de las últimas fiestas náuticas y el Alinghi triunfa en la competición más reñida de la historia. Después de una competición de infarto el Alinghi se ha convertido en el 32º ganador de la Copa del América. Dicho quede por si alguien lo ignoraba. Te das cuenta de que el mundo está loco cuando el mejor rapero del mundo es blanco, el mejor golfista es negro y Suiza gana la Copa del América.. Han sido dos semanas intensas de piscolabis, presentaciones, canapeos y saraos de diversa índole…

Navegantes de tierra
Seguimos con fiesta náuticas entre la diletancia y al extenuación, decididas como estamos a no incidir en otras cuestiones de la actualidad. Así que procedemos y seguimos con el festorro que organizó el cónsul honorario de Hungría en Andalucía, Pablo Zoltan , y su encantadora pareja  Nora en su velero de 30 metros de eslora, el Thalassi. Este extraordinario barco fue utilizado a finales de los ochenta para realizar la serie documental de TVE El arrecife de coral , dirigida por Francisco Saura . Una embarcación mítica (nos gustan los mitos, qué le vamos a hacer) que en los últimos cinco años ha navegado por todos los océanos del mundo y que ha estado en Valencia durante la Copa del América.

Pues bien –y a esto íbamos–, llegamos a la fiesta con nuestras sonrisas y nuestros bolsos nuevos (¿otra veeeez? Sí, otra vez. Nuestra próxima mudanza podremos hacerla sin cajas de cartón: sólo en bolsos. Así salvamos árboles del Amazonas). Allí se juntó un reducido y selecto número de amigos y residentes en Valencia, como el cónsul honorario de Hungría en nuestra ciudad, Andrés Goerlich ; la cónsul honoraria de Francia en Valencia, Nadine Llombart y el director del programa “En connexió” de RTVV, Joan Miquel Llopis . También saludamos a Inmaculada Lladró , de los Lladró de toda la vida –como diría el periodista Josemi Rodríguez Sieiro –, al publicista MacDiego y a la periodista Paula Pons . Un trío de jazz sobre la cubierta del velero y unas copas de champán animaron la velada, que sirvió como despedida a la flamante pareja de anfitriones que este verano recorrerá el mediterráneo con el Thalassi.

RECEPCION DEL CUERPO CONSULAR DE MALAGA A LAS AUTORIDADES. PABLO ZOLTAN CONSUL DE HUNGRIA.  AUTORIDADES LOCALES. ATENCION A CIUDADANOS HUNGAROS DE LA COSTA DEL SOL
Un balcón a 32 países
Autoridades políticas y económicas de Málaga acudieron a la recepción del Cuerpo Consular que se celebra todos los años.
FUENTE: DIARIO SUR
TEXTO: Mª JOSÉ CRUZADO / FOTO: CARLOS MORET / MÁLAGA/
La terraza del céntrico Hotel Málaga Palacio se convirtió anoche en un improvisado balcón abierto a las relaciones diplomáticas con 32 países. Más de un centenar de invitados se dieron cita en la tradicional recepción anual que ofrece el Cuerpo Consular de Málaga a las autoridades políticas y económicas de la provincia. Allí estaban poíticos de los gobiernos central, regional y local, junto a representantes de los sectores económicos de la ciudad: constructores, comerciantes, empresarios de todo tipo que fueron agasajados por 32 cónsules y un grupo de música brasileño. No en vano, la institución consular tiene un origen comercial y marítimo.Bruce A. Mcintyre, cónsul del Reino Unido y actual decano del Cuerpo, ejerció las veces de anfitrión. El cónsul de Portugal, Rafael Pérez Peña, fue el organizador este año del evento, una misión que va rotando año tras año y que requiere de grandes dosis de diplomacia. La trascendencia del acto radica en que el único de carácter diplomático que se celebra en Málaga.Se trata de una reunión internacional donde se habló de temas más locales, entre ellos, la cada vez más creciente población extranjera y los también crecientes problemas de pasaporte y visado con alguno de los países representados en la fiesta.Su objetivo, «reanudar y renovar el contacto con las autoridades malagueñas», en palabras de McIntyre, quien en su discurso de bienvenida agradeció a los asistentes su colaboración y apoyo al Cuerpo Consular. Según el representante británico, esta cooperación es cada vez mayor, aunque siempre viene bien actos sociales como el de ayer para afianzar las relaciones entre las instituciones para, según dijo, «proteger a los ciudadanos del país que representamos».Entre ellos la cónsul de EE. UU., Roberta G. Aaron; y los representantes de Brasil, Pedro Mestre de Oliveira; Suecia, Pedro Megías; o Ecuador, José García Castillo, el Cónsul de Hungría Pablo Zoltan Frank,  muchos de ellos con sus esposas y acompañados de los vicecónsules de sus respectivos departamentos.Y junto a los canapés y al huevo hilado con jamón, rostros conocidos de la política, la justicia, y los cuerpos y fuerzas de seguridad del Estado, como Francisco Arroyo, presidente de la Audiencia Provincial de Málaga; Carolina España, concejala de Economía y Hacienda, que acudió en representación del Consistorio malagueño ante la ausencia del alcalde; Hilario López Luna, subdelegado del Gobierno; José Espinosa, jefe de la Guardia Civil; y el decano del Colegio de Abogados, Nielson Sánchez Stewart, entre un largo etcétera.Repercusión
Málaga es la segunda provincia andaluza con mayor número de cónsules, después de Sevilla, capital política de la Comunidad autónoma. Su importancia estragégica no sólo radica en la cada vez mayor población extranjera residente, sino en su privilegiada situación geográfica. En 1847 Málaga ya contaba con 21 consulados o viceconsulados y en la década comprendida entre 1860 y 1870 ya tenían el mismo número que ahora aunque la población apenas alcanzaba los 90.000 habitantes.

De ahí que algunos miembros del acto echaran en falta una mayor difusión de este tipo de eventos por su relevancia para la proyección turística de Málaga así como la presencia de nombres y figuras destacadas de la política de la ciudad. Ciertamente, no estaban todos los que son, pero sí son todos los que estaban.